Reflections on the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Podcast

by Tim Hunter

I trust you have listened to Christianity Today’s new podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. 

If not, where have you been? Go binge listen to all five episodes. 

Thank me later. 

But seriously, this podcast has made me think deeply, and not entirely in the way that I had imagined. I thought going into this podcast that it would be an interesting listen that warned me of the dangers of a megachurch pastor who let pride and power go to his head. And that has happened. 

Well kind of. 

I am convinced that as Christians we need to learn to nuance our thinking. On reflecting on this podcast I begin to see common threads in the way that I see people responding to it that I believe are indicative of the way that the church and culture as a whole react to information. 

So, allow me to offer some reflections… and one question. My goal is not to fully support or oppose The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. Rather, I would like to humbly offer some reflections that I hope will lead us to together think in a more holistic way about celebrity, culture, and the church. 

The Production Value is Amazing 

I mean seriously. This podcast is about as good as it gets as far as production. It listens like a cross between a Netflix documentary and a true-crime episode. The music and transitions draw you in. Mike Cosper, the host, is a tremendous storyteller. I applaud Christianity Today for a masterful example of art done excellently by Christians. 

Mars Hill Church Harmed a lot of People 

“There is a pile of dead bodies underneath the Mars Hill bus, and by God’s grace it will be a mountain by the time we are done.” Those words, spoken by Mark Driscoll the head pastor of Mars Hill, ring eerily prophetic. Mars Hill did indeed leave a pile of dead bodies (figuratively speaking of course: to the best of my knowledge no one was murdered.) and we should mourn this fact. The podcast does a great job of doing the messy work of uncovering some of these stories. 

Listening to these episodes of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill has been a sobering exercise. The seductive power of celebrity is real within the evangelical church. Pride is subversive and destructive. We see these at play throughout the podcast as we see Pastor Mark succumb to these very real and very deceptive tendencies. If this podcast does one thing well, it serves as a signpost saying: Danger! Pastors are not celebrities! People are not pawns to be used, and Jesus’ bride, the church is not a platform to be used to gain influence!

 Some people are no longer within the church today because of the harm caused by Mars Hill Church. 

Mars Hill Church helped a lot of People 

I have appreciated the way that this podcast has not shied away from showing this fact. Real people were saved miraculously by Jesus, real people were baptized. Lives were changed, homes were transformed, addictions were broken, disciples were made, and leaders were raised. God used Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church in ways that saw the gospel pierce into the heart of a secular and postmodern city: Seattle, Washington. 

I think this point should not go unnoticed. Among the harm that was done, we must not discount the people that radically encountered God’s grace in a life-changing and for some, generationally shifting way. 

Some people are in the church today because of the good done by Mars Hill Church. 

Let us not confuse the Message with the Messenger

This would be my main critique of the podcast. At times it seems that the focus starts to lean away from exposing the dangers associated with power and celebrity and to the theology itself. I do not have a problem with critiquing a leader or church's theology. I do not subscribe completely to the theology promoted by Mars Hill or Mark Driscoll. But one could argue that theology may have been a strong suit of Mars Hill. Mark Driscoll was an evangelical darling within the church at his height of power and influence. I wonder if Mars Hill had not ended so badly would the same people be critiquing its theology? 

I’ll just leave that there. 

Is our love for podcasts like these flowing from a love for Jesus and His Gospel, or from the Satanic influence of “cancel culture”?

“Love does not rejoice in wrongdoing.” 1 Cor. 13:6. At some level, I wonder if the way that evangelical culture gobbles up podcasts and videos detailing the demise of well-known Christian leaders is because of a filling of the Holy Spirit or a filling of the harmful ideology of culture. 

We are not called to cancel brothers and sisters in Christ. We are called to pray and long for restoration. The spirit that enjoys hearing sin and failure hung out like dirty laundry is probably the same spirit that would enjoy watching a car crash happen: kind of harmful and sick. 

And I am talking primarily to myself: trust me. 

As I have listened through The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill the story has almost become about more than Mars Hill or Mark Driscoll. For Mars Hill is not the only example of beauty and brokenness converging. It is not the only example of God using broken vessels to preach His good news, and it is not the only example of someone desperately needing grace and restoration. 

Maybe this podcast is about me.